Come on dude, why fuck with that sissy shit? Get yourself a Bufo Alvaris (Colorado River Toad) squeeze out some toad venom, smoke that shit up, and go on a viscous DMT trip.
Thanks Ulatek. I figure Sinicuichi is probably the gentler way to start experimenting with audio-hallucinogens than stepping into full-blown fuck-me-to-next-Tuesday trips with the hope of getting audio side-effects. I mean, from what I've read Sinicuichi and DiPT are much more purely audio hallucinogens than some of these multi-sensory hallucinogens and as such I feel like I could handle my shit pretty well under the grips of one of them. I'll break myself in slowly with the milder (I would presume) and legal Sincuichi and see if I like the landscape at all before crawling deeper down the rabbit hole. I think the tea-brewing method is the most common and although it tastes terrible, I'm not too worried about puking because I've never puked on anything but cheap wine and a cuban one time when I hot-boxed my buddy's closet of an apartment. I wasn't really too optimistic about finding anybody who had tried Sincuichi before due to the marked dearth of information online, but I figured who knows. Salvia seems to have brought plants back into some vogue these days from what I can tell. We'll see. Either I'm standing at the frontline of new research or I'm smoking banana peels. It's a win-draw situation.
As for Mr. Ed,... If the opportunity presents itself and I'm not subjected to anything involving a sharp, I'm game. I have a vial of DMSO growing dusty in the closet and just waiting to be usefully employed. That was, actually, why I bought it.
The plant: A common thread to *every* bad trip I read about was feeling like every muscle in your body is thrashed. Like from a super hard workout the next day. They described it like the worst experience of their life though. heh. Again.. it was interesting to note that in every case where a person was using with a friend and one of them hurt they both did... so it was almost certainly an issue of batch preparation and not so much personal biochemistry.
In one case the guy called his dealer to complain and the guy said, "Weird, I used some from the the same the other day with no trouble." But that's just from the same batch of plant, not the same tea-prep. Also... that's what all dealers say. LMAO, "What're you talking about? Bad shit? I love it! No you don't get your money back." Admittedly.. my experience of dealers is pretty much meth/heroin/coke so *shrug*
DiPT But yeah.. Like Ulatec said... more like distortion than hallucination from everything I read.
I'd also like to add that I love the quote "what the hell I'm a cosmonaut not a pussy." Variations of that thought has resulted in me doing some real dumb stuff. "Lets chop this 1/4 zip into four lines... what? you're not in? Fuck it, three lines then."
I'm actually just surprised Sinicuichi dealers exist at all. Heck I've still been unable to locate someone selling K and not for lack of trying. I guess it's the sort of thing that people don't commonly keep stocked. Twice I've turned down offers to special order it for a healthy premium. I thought I'd find some primary source, but I'm jumping at my next "special order" offer.
Yeah, as far as the whole distortion versus hallucination thing is concerned, I'm not expecting hallucinations as in experiences not connected to reality. You can see earlier in the thread that I was explaining to Susie that audio hallucinogens don't create sounds for the user, they simply alter the user's perceptions of sounds. That's what I'm interested in. I guess the more specific term would be psychedelic, but I though psychedelics were classified as hallucinogens despite the fact that they don't create hallucinations of things not based in reality. Eh, whatever the case, don't worry: I'm not expecting things I should be from this plant. I'm mainly approaching it with a pretty open mind and frank curiosity.
I'd also like to note that the cosmonaut comment did leap out at me too. Well played, Ulatek.
hal⋅lu⋅ci⋅na⋅tion –noun 1. a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind, caused by various physical and mental disorders, or by reaction to certain toxic substances, and usually manifested as visual or auditory images. 2. the sensation caused by a hallucinatory condition or the object or scene visualized. 3. a false notion, belief, or impression; illusion; delusion.
Think your terminology made some of us think you were after different effects. Some good mushrooms would still do the job like a champ IMHO.
Getting some mimosa hostilis root bark, and grinding it to fine powder. Performing a simple A/B extraction on it with using hot napthalene as the solvent. Putting the resulting crystals in between parsley buffer in a corn cob pipe and touching flame to it whilst deeply inhaling the smoke once.Will take you to Dimension X to dance with biomechanical insectoids... and there would be music.
I've accentuated your definition to properly show what I meant:
wrote ...
1. a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind, caused by various physical and mental disorders, or by reaction to certain toxic substances, and usually manifested as visual or auditory images. 2. the sensation caused by a hallucinatory condition or the object or scene visualized. 3. a false notion, belief, or impression; illusion; delusion.
Thus: A sensory experience (that does not exist outside the mind) of something. I think what you guys are talking about are called delusions or confabulations. They are forms of hallucination that I am not interested in. Rather I am interested in experiencing a psychedelic effect. I guess the only thing that held me back from using this term was that it has these medical connotations that I'm not at all certain DiPT or Sinicuichi would fit. (i.e. I'm not sure either of those substances targets the seratonin 5-HT2A receptor)
As far as mushrooms go, I doubt they would achieve the same effect to be honest. Mushrooms are a primarily visual and emotional drug for me anyway, and I'm not really looking for simply some kind or any kind of experience. I mean granted DMT will allow me to talk to space elves as I lay catatonic and my neighbors call the paramedics, but that's not the goal here. I just want a simple game of "lets see what it sounds like." I'm trying to find something that as purely and specifically as possible affects my auditory sensory experience of something. From what I've read online it looks like DiPT would be most effective in this regard, but I thought I'd check with those who had tried it before I sailed into the seas of the unknown. I have also read that Sinicuichi has similar effects to DiPT but on a lesser scale. Considering how cheap the seeds were I was willing to make their procurement without the steadying hand and well-modulated voice of a experienced prior adventurer. I think I'll hold off on DiPT until I try the Sinicuichi, but I'll reserve judgment on it until I actually meet someone who has tried it. My experience with internet FAQs and non-interactive dialogue has been something less than satisfactory. I prefer to use them as starting points from which I can bounce questions off the experienced. That's why threads like this are so useful to me. Most of my friends are avowed straightedgers who would never dream of treating pot as a gateway drug. I need people who met pot with a "Hello, gate. ... What a nice gate. I wonder what's through here..." attitude. As such, thanks for all the help you two have been so far. I'm still waiting for the Rev. Toad to show up. I am pretty certain he has experience with research chems, so I think he's my best hope as far as DiPT goes.
Edited Sun Feb 15 2009, 04:18pm
wrote ... My experience with internet FAQs and non-interactive dialogue has been something less than satisfactory.
Absolutely. That's why I said from the start I wasn't sure how much help I'd be. My experience is waaaay more in the direction of 'hard' drugs than anything hallucinogenic.
Good luck, and really, come tell us about it if you get poisoned. I'm curious now
Yeah that sounds pretty wild. We'll see. I got the seeds shipped to my brother's place so I'll have to pick them up over spring break or this summer. Booerns.
If I experienced with my eyes the sight of a 27 eyed pink elephant whistling dixie out of its asshole and waving a mexican flag. and nobody else saw it.. i would have had a sensory experience of something that did not exist outside of my own mind. a hallucination.
now, if I were looking at the wood panels on my wall and they seemed to move and dance the sensory experience of their movement would have been the hallucination as the movement did not exist outside my own mind.
if i heard robert plant demanding pancakes with threats of urinating on the floor behind me.. and i turned around and he wasnt there then I would have had a sensory experience of hearing something that did not exist outside my own mind.
so wether you are hearing things that are not there. or are hearing sounds that are there doing things that they are not doing. like echo or distort, you are still just having a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside of your own mind. be it totally out of nowhere or the sensory experience of something that is there doing something thats not.
"mushrooms" I suppose is a very broad term.
There are over 300 strains of Cubensis that I know of...
ive not met a strain that behaves the same as another, some are visual , emotional, speedy, laughy, some dance, some liquify, some zig-zag. But they are all good for the music . Psilocybe Cubensis are ...Ok , they are also pretty common and mild at best. If not eaten fresh they arent much more than a dry cardboard tasting mild headchange. Bout all thats good for is making people money. Also cubeys reach a point when they are very young where they contain all the actives that they are ever going to contain, and any growth beyond that point is just added weight...Greedy bastards dont care about all that though. Bigger = Weight = $ Good if eaten fresh, small and in large quantities I guess.
Then you got Psilocybe Cyanescens, another Psilocybin & Psilocin containing species that is at least twice as potent IMO and has been shown to contain much more psychoactive than cubensis. Most notably they contain much more Psilocin, something that cubeys have very little of.. and Psilocin is where they hide all the fireworks, that is what draws the distinct line between yawning and feeling a litte strange as you watch the wallpaper struggle to dance and feeling like a madman who finds himself changing colors so often ridiculous just so he can even begin to stop his face from hurting and wipe the sparkling golden tears of laughter from his black eyes and get on with watching plaid serpents slither from upholstery and find out if thats a violin or just wood creaking.
Then theres Panoleus cyans, Panoleus arcana,pan subs etc. etc. too many to list. And these omnipotent superfungi are the badboys to which I was referring.
And yea they do that, hell all of em do...
.. And DMT is nothing like that, it is present in your brain right now..its extracted from natural sources and has been widely used for centuries in the form of aya.It is a natural neurotransmitter... You dont fall out into a coma, you take a hit and some peoples eyes close, standing up or sitting down they stay that way for about 4-5 min, just soaking in what they are experiencing..The scenario you laid out has never and never will happen as a result of DMT. No matter what you read about elves and whatnot. And I only mentioned it because it simply does not GET anymore psychadelic than DMT . If its psychadelic you want you are barking up all the wrong trees. DMT is psychadelia defined, mescaline cannot be overlooked by any means...Both are easily extracted DMT from mimosa hostilis root bark, or phalaris grass,or psychotria,or illinois bundleweed.. And mescaline from san pedro cacti all of which are legal botanicals and readily available. Either one of those will induce extreme psychadelic states of conciousness and I dont care wether Ive done any DiPT or sincuichi I guarantee you neither will approach anything even remotely close to the extreme psychadelic experiences as spice or mescaline.
if your worried about comas and paramedics then it doesnt make much sense to then ingest "research chemicals" that NOBODY knows much of anything about .. Beyond psychoactivity
From good ole Tihkal (tryptamines i have known and loved) the chemical love story:
QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 18 mg, orally) "Wild effects noted in an hour. Remarkable changes in sounds heard. My wife's voice is basso, as if she had a cold -- my ears with slight pressure as if my tubes were clogged but they aren't. Radio voices are all low, music out of key. Piano sounds like a bar-room disaster. The telephone ringing sounds partly underwater. In a couple more hours, music pretty much normal again."
(with 25 mg, orally) "Within the first hour I noted changes already, and my hand-writing became very poor. I cannot seem to measure the rate of the drug's effects as there is no obvious window through which I am moving. Abrupt sounds have golden spikes attached to them as after-sounds, but I can't focus in on any other sensory changes. I moved into a completely quiet environment and there don't appear to be any effects of any kind. If I were deaf, this would have been an inactive compound. How many other drugs have appeared to be inactive because I didn't know where to look for effects?"
(with 50 mg, orally) "Everything was auditory, and I can only describe it with a '!'"
(with 100 mg, orally) "Nothing until 35 minutes when a definite change in hearing was observed. There was a decrease in high frequency acuity with an unusual tonal shift of all frequencies to a lower pitch. Voices sounded very similar to a single side-band radio signal which had been mistuned to the low side of the center frequency. All familiar sounds became foreign, including the chewing of food. No effects were noted with respect to clarity of speech, and both comprehension and interpretation were normal. Music was rendered completely disharmonious although single tones sounded normal. There were no changes in vision, taste, smell, appetite, vital signs, or motor coordination. The effects began to fade at four hours post ingestion, and were completely gone at eight hours. Mild diarrhea occurred from five to ten hours post-ingestion but was not a significant problem."
(with 250 mg, orally) "Shortly after I ingested the substance I heard a spirit say, 'Once in a lifetime.' She encouraged me to believe that I would have more life after the experience. But, there was a feeling of foreboding. The light was there, but DIPT was the body of Satan. The voices of people were extremely distorted -- males sounded like frogs -- children sounded like they were talking through synthesizers to imitate outer space people in science fiction movies. In fact I felt that I was somehow sent into an anti-universe where everything looked the same as normal but was a cold and empty imitation. I felt I was a fallen angel."
-----
Sound distortion, Voices, echoes, amplification
yada yada..audio hallucinations
-->good<--- LSD, Mushrooms, DMT, and Mescaline DEFINATELY do the exact same thing. I know so. All the time. Audio hallucinations May not be the entire arsenal of any of those drugs... doubt anyone would do them much if so.. All of what he had described I commonly experience on even the tamest of substances. He said it caused some mild diarrhea.. i wonder if it sounded robotic when he farted? lol
So theres your dosages, was right in Tihkal. The man doesnt play when it comes to his chemicals.
DPT is dipropyltryptamine DiPT is diisopropyltryptamine DMT is dimethyltryptamine Psilocybin is a psychadelic indole of the tryptamine family LSD is a tryptamine
all tryptamines..and audio hallucination is something they all cause to some degree, most alot more than that.
take some acid, eat some mushrooms put on some headphones and i guarantee thats what it sounds like
I'm really not sure how I can be clearer. I want ONLY audio effects SEPARATE from any other experience REGARDLESS of how mind-blowing they might be. The audio effects I wish to investigate in isolation are in the psychedelic realm of hallucination, however the reason I have disregarded LSD, Mescaline, mushrooms (of whichever genus or species), and DMT is that I have sampled them all (except mescaline) and have noticed that in me they produce OTHER effects beside purely audio hallucinations. I have it on good authority that mescaline also produces OTHER effects beside pure audio hallucinations.
I'm not questioning anyone's experiences with the auditory effects of drugs that are not solely auditory in nature. As I mentioned earlier, I myself have experienced auditory effects from even hash. As I jestingly suggested with DMT I'm sure that powerful drugs if taken in appropriate dosages might have auditory effects mixed in with all of their other effects. I'm really not content to take anyone's word for it that LSD with headphones is the same thing, though. LSD has NEVER been purely auditory for me. Any auditory effects I may have experienced with LSD were so totally overwhelmed by the plaid upholstery snakes that I didn't even notice. I'm honestly doubtful that upping my dose would even reduce the snakes to noises ratio in my favor.
As far as TIHKaL is concerned, thanks for indulging my curiosity by reproducing the text to satisfy what must seem like a strange obsession of mine, but to tell the truth I'm less looking for dosages than for trip reports from people a little less intense than the Shulgins. What might only be a mild case of ringing ears for the good doctor would probably curl my toes. That said, though, I do actually confess to having the DiPT entry bookmarked in my copy of TIHKaL, so it's not like I'm blowing him off. If I remember right, isn't DiPT one of the magical 250-or-so that he created himself?
Beside trip reports, the other reason I posted was to find out if anyone had tried to grow Sinicuichi and if there were any recommendations or warnings I should know about (like tendencies to die if left unwatered for a few days or anything like that). It was kind of an off-chance really. I know some people have tried out some pretty exotic things, though. I think Si said he'd gone all Carlos Castaneda and tried Datura in the past. Growing Sinicuichi doesn't really seem like Dylan's thing somehow, and I'm thinking Toad would probably be a better resource for info on DiPT than on Sinicuichi (although who knows).
So to reiterate my major point: I'm NOT looking for simply some kind or for any kind of psychedelic experience. Instead I am interested in experiencing ONLY a SPECIFIC psychedelic effect - namely an AUDIO effect. Let's be clear, I would not be interested in DiPT of all things unless I really didn't care a thing about the visual and emotional aspects, now would I? I do enjoy visual/emotional/etc aspects as well, but I'm a scientist, not a hedonist, and I'm content to set those distractions aside for this particular experiment.
EDIT: Reading this thread over again, it must seem like I'm being pretty unappreciative of all of the info on mushrooms, acid, and the other usual suspects, and I should say that don't mean to sound like I'm not thankful for all of it. The problem is that I'm really only interested in something very very specific, and I'm not sure that discussions of these other drugs really goes to the heart of the topic. Or to put it differently, I know that they don't (for me personally at least) because I've either tried them or their effects are widely reported as something more than auditory in multiple sources. Again, I do appreciate the time everyone has taken to properly examine the issue. Many thanks to all.
Edited Sun Feb 22 2009, 08:04am
Ok, may be just a little late to reply. but fuggit!
I understand that your looking for purely audio hallucinations now. I may have understood that to begin with... I dont remember writing most of this shit.
And this brings me to something else, As far as you sounding unappreciative goes, I dont even really think that way. Truth is, I get bored and waste my time in a variety of ways.. doing things similiar to the above all the time. And I try subconciously at times to create debate/argument where there is none to be had. Because making mountains out of molehills is a wonderful display of senselessness, and it floats my boat.
...So I wonder, are you still alive? Or was it the sadistic song of death that met your ears upon ingestion?
trip report plz, provided you still dwell among the living
sorry I did bad things...
im a bad bad man...
Edited Thu Aug 06 2009, 02:49pm
